Dark Souls: The Mystery of the Dragons and why Gwyn killed them
The Ringed City, while a beautiful way to conclude Dark Souls, mostly left us with nothing but questions. As time went on, more and more of the mysteries within the series came to be solved in satisfying ways, but what bothered me was a question I had not yet seen anyone ask: why did Gwyn kill the dragons? It seems self-explanatory, they are destructive monsters and Gwyn killed them to establish a society, but a closer examination of the lore finds that the dragons do not fit this mold at all, and perhaps stranger, do not fit into any existing conception of what a dragon is.
My goal in writing this is to comprehensively explain all lore regarding what a dragon is within the souls series, and why their nature essentially forced Gwyn to kill them off. Additionally, this will (assuming I am successful) explain seeming inconsistencies in Gwyn’s own character, and hopefully expand your appreciation for his characterization and the general lore like it has mine.
Part 1: Dragons don’t Breathe Fire
This is a controversial but essential aspect of understanding the Everlasting Dragons, and one that I generally have a difficult time convincing people of, but by the end of this section you should see that the evidence and examples of dragons in-game and lore descriptions align themselves to this rule to a meticulous degree.
We first need to examine the First Flame. According to the opening cinematic its existence brought several concepts into the world:
Relevant to the Dragons are three of these: Disparity, Life, and Death, in addition to the fact that the First Flame is quite literally the first fire in the souls world, our first contradiction if Archdragons are to have breathed fire. If you pay careful attention to the cinematic, you will find that none of them do. Disparity will become key later on, as it indicates the concepts of differences and inequalities were not even present in the world prior to the flame.
Miyazaki addresses the peculiar nature of the Dragons’ biology directly. From the Game no Shokutaku Interview
Isomura: Onward to enemy characters… Why is the Stone Dragon OK with its tail being cut off? Why doesn’t he become hostile? The suspense was thrilling me! Compare it to the magician brat [Griggs] who doesn’t get pissed with the Dark Hand R2, it must really have a heart of gold…!
Miyazaki: The Stone Dragon is not alive. The Ancient Dragons are half-living, half-element, so there’s no pain for them. In the opening cinematic, it’s shown that they were there before there was life. So yeah, they don’t feel pain, kinda like Akuma Shogun From the Kinnikuman series. He doesn’t possess it’s own body, so he doesn’t feel pain. He fusions with Akuma Kishi and builds its body.].
*Miyazaki and Murokashi laugh, but Tomomi doesn’t get it*
Murohashi: You don’t get it? I guess the young ones of today won’t understand it!
Isomura: I thought the tail regrows.
Murohashi: It does.
Isomura: So it doesn’t hurt?
Miyazaki: It’s not like that. It’s not painful. It’s just beyond human understanding.
As we see here, the Dragons predate the concepts the First Flame brought into the world, fire included. For further evidence we must look directly at the examples of dragons across the series, as surely you all recall being burned by many of them. How can that be the case?
The Dragon Weapons are incredibly revealing on this subject. Relevant descriptions are as follows:
Drake Sword: This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, is formed by a drake’s tail. Drakes are seen as undeveloped imitators of the dragons, but they are likely their distant kin.
Dragon Greatsword: This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of the stone dragon of Ash Lake, descendant of the ancient dragons.
Dragon Head Shield: Even the descendant of an Archdragon perishes not, and use of this skill restores its former strength, sweeping foes with a frontal exhalation of dragon breath.
The common link between fire (though the Ash Lake Dragon did not exhibit any of its own) is that it is only possessed by descendants of the Archdragons, ergo beings that came into existence after the First Flame had come about and added new concepts into the world. However this still leaves several loose ends, after all Kalameet and the Ancient Dragon breathe fire, do they not? And what of Midir?
Kalameet is fascinating for several reasons. Its title “Last of the Ancient Dragons” renders it impossible for there to be any more in existence lest there be a contradiction in the lore. Secondly, it effectively functions as an abyssal enemy before Dark damage was in the game. As always, FROM has a keen eye. Kalameet’s “fire” deals physical and magic damage, the same as the Abyssal Sorcery Dark Bead, indicating Kalameet has been corrupted by the Abyss swallowing Oolacile. It is a separate topic, but the Ringed City alludes to darkness possessing some aspects of life like fire is often assumed to have had. The Gaping Dragon was also once a true Archdragon, but fell victim to a similar corruption, according to Miyazaki.
“…it’s part of an ancient race of mineral based life forms, existing since long before the emergence of mankind, yet, despite its superiority over us, its time has passed, and it finds itself alone in the world, the last of its race forced to survive in any way it can. As to what triggered this change… well, the emergence of life corrupted it, it was warped by emotion and desire…” — From the Dark Souls Design Works Interview
Concepts brought about by the flame, and therefore the Abyss, can corrupt Dragons. The Ancient Dragon is another case entirely. While the enemy we face is artificial, created by Aldia with a Giant’s soul, the corpse of the real one we find in the Memory of the Ancient Dragon bears a very tangible soul.
Ancient Dragon Soul: Soul of the great ancient dragon that stands magnificently, deep within the shrine.
This powerful being stands and waits, for whoever may visit him.
Use the dragon soul, created by those who peered into the essence of the soul, to acquire numerous souls, or to create something of great worth.
Despite the description speaking of the Dragon Shrine, we retrieve this soul from the true Ancient Dragon’s memory, thus, the real Ancient Dragon should have breathed fire like its imitator. For the explanation here we must look to Big Hat Logan and the essence of the soul.
Homing Soul Mass: Sorcery developed by Big Hat Logan: Homing soulmass. Life originates in the soul; no wonder the soulmass draws toward it. This sorcery is a window into seeker Logan’s methods.
As life originates in the soul, this means the Ancient Dragon must either have come into existence after the First Flame, or been corrupted by its influence as the Gaping Dragon was. This also means that Sinh, Slumbering Dragon, must be either a descendant of dragons or a corrupted specimen as well, as it possesses a soul. The Guardian Dragon is known to be a likely construct of Aldia and thus need not be considered (and if not Aldia’s doing, its other items indicate it is merely another Drake).
Continuing to Dark Souls 3, Lothric’s Wyverns have rather unique lore that ties together the original Dragon Forms (which will be covered in the next section). This writeup goes into great detail how, but I will summarize the relevant information.
Thunder Stoneplate Ring: Stoneplates are symbols of true knights, and yellow stoneplates are granted to those who would become dragons.
As noted by the original author, the presence of Lothric Knights at the area of meditation, and at Archdragon’s Peak indicates Lothric Knights were in the process of becoming dragons themselves. Considering the Wyverns are one of Lothric’s greatest symbols and that it is an honor to ride one, these Wyverns are very likely Lothric Knights.
Lothric Knight Set: The Knight has served as one of the Three Pillars since ancient times, and shares place alongside the wyverns as a symbol of Lothric.
Lightning Urn: The knights of Lothric have since tamed dragons, but were once hunters of dragons themselves. This explains their special hunting gear, and why they worshipped the sun.
But a Wyvern is no true Archdragon however, once again explaining the presence of fire. The final fire breathing “dragon” we encounter is Darkeater Midir, who has existed since ancient times and is immortal, seemingly being a true Archdragon. However…
Soul of Darkeater Midir: Midir, descendant of Archdragons, was raised by the gods, and owing to his immortality was given a duty to eternally battle the dark, a duty that he would never forget, even after the gods perished.
Even Midir is a descendant of the true Dragons, explaining his relationship to fire (and more obviously, darkness). That leaves only one very peculiar creature left to explain.
Seath the Scaleless is a conundrum. Seemingly a true archdragon who only possesses a soul granted to him as a gift, that does not breathe fire yet also was born without scales, he is perhaps the best example of the concept of Disparity in the series. How else could a dragon come into existence without their greatest strength? Seath provides the foundation for the bulk of this theory. For this section, we are only focusing on his unique breath.
Seath does not breathe fire, or the abyss, or lightning, or any other substance any Drake or Dragon in the series spews forth. Seath breathes out crystals, and crystals that curse you.
White Dragon Breath: Sorcery developed by Logan during his infatuation with Seath the Scaleless. Emit crystal breath of Seath the Scaleless.
Although it no longer causes curses, what madness caused old Big Hat to appropriate this frightful power of the ancient dragons?
The Ancient Dragons did not breathe fire, but crystals and curses. How are curses represented in Dark Souls? Through stone. What did Seath lack? Scales of stone, and what is a crystal but another stone.
Part 2: The Nature of Stone and the Age of Fire
Stone in Dark Souls is associated with longevity and stasis, our first introduction to it being the Gray Crags and stone Archtrees of the unchanging and unformed world the everlasting dragons populated. We see it again shortly after in the stone scales of the dragons, seemingly their source of immortality. The Dragon Scale descriptions are particularly illuminating.
Dragon Scale (DS1): Dragon scale for reinforcing dragon weapons.
Peeled from an ancient dragon. A dragon is inseparable from its scales,
and the transcendent apostles, who seek the perpetuity of the ancient dragons,
have crossed the very end of the earth to seek this invaluable treasure.
Dragon Scale (DS2): A scale from the body of an ancient dragon. Offer to the dragon to bring your own flesh closer to that of the eternal ancient dragon. Touching an ancient dragon scale gives one a glimpse into the abyss. Believers in the dragon will rise above this petty corporeal existence.
The inclusion of the Abyss in the DS2 description is certainly interesting as well, though I believe it primarily ties into DarkDiver Grandal’s belief that all things come from the Abyss, which contradicts the First Flame bringing dark into the world. As such I don’t intend to ignore it, but I don’t believe that aspect of the lore is relevant here. The key is that stones grant permanence, the immortal life of the ancient dragons. That same permanence can be acquired in another, less desirable, way via being cursed.
In Dark Souls 1, the only enemies capable of cursing you are Seath the Scaleless and the Basilisks. While I believe this could be grounds to claim the Basilisks are another set of draconic descendants like the Drakes and Man-Serpents (per DS3 lore), the evidence is quite thin. Dark Souls 2 does strengthen the idea by having Basilisks drop both dragon bones and stones however, though they no longer apply curse and may be spawn of Aldia in this iteration (explaining their differing resistances to the originals).
Cursing affects the player by turning them to stone, killing you, and persists with the player after death effectively making it an eternal ailment. Not unlike the life of the dragons, or the state of the Age of Ancients in general. Curses cannot be broken by humans (more on this later), but can only be redirected to a Purging Stone.
Purging Stone (DS1): Humans are helpless against curses, and can only redirect their influence. The Purging Stone does not dispel curses, but receives them as a surrogate. The stone itself was once a person or some other being.
Purging Stone (DS3): Inhabitants of Londor, the land of Hollows, use this secret treasure to feign normalcy. Occasionally, a Hollow fools even himself, and turns on his own kind.
Not only is the curse of stone effectively permanent, it can only be pacified by another stone, one that was once a life-form itself. Not at all unlike Miyazaki’s statement that dragons are mineral-based creatures. This is where we enter more speculative territory, but I believe it is well supported based on what’s been presented so far.
I believe Gwyn killed the Dragons because they produced curses, and that the Age of Ancients itself functions as a stagnant curse of stone, perpetuated by them. The world can not progress to be a land of life, death, light, and dark without the source of the curse being snuffed out. Society cannot exist so long as this curse persists, and so Gwyn struck down the dragons. This is supported by two specific lines in the opening cinematic.
Despite the First Flame having already brought new concepts into the world, allowing for life to flourish, the Age of Fire did not begin until the dragons were destroyed. This is because the game treats the Dawn of the Age of Fire and the actual Age of Fire as two separate occurrences, explaining how there was time to build an army and culture after the flame appeared but before society was formed at large. We see this explained to us in several item descriptions.
Lord Soul: This Lord Soul was discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
Bequeathed Lord Soul Shard: A fragment of a Lord Soul discovered
at the dawn of the Age of Fire.
Sunlight Spear: In the war that marked the dawn of the Age of Fire, Gwyn wielded these rays of sunlight, which remains fierce even as they fade.
Gold-Hemmed Black Set: Worn by the witch Quelana of Izalith, mother of pyromancy and Daughter of Chaos. She wore this gold-hemmed black cloak before even the Age of Fire, and it offers strong resistance versus fire, poison, and other perils.
Dark Souls is meticulously specific with its word choices across all three titles. Note that Quelana’s item is the only one that drops the word “dawn”, but this makes perfect sense when you consider the implications. Quelana could not have taken any independent actions before the dawn of the Age of Fire, as life and change were nonexistent concepts. But she could do this in the interim between the dawn and Age of Fire proper that began once the dragons were slain, after life and emotion had been brought into the world.
We see the effect the victory over the dragons has on the perception of the gods in Ingward’s dialogue.
“I’m an old man, bound to these parts. But cleansing your curses; that I can do. The breaking of curses is the territory of deities. You must be prepared to give some of yourself.” — Ingward, Guardian of the Seal
Why would the breaking of a curse be considered the domain of the gods? If Gwyn had broken a curse upon the world by slaying the dragons, they could certainly have gained this perception. This begs the question though, what is a God that they can remove a curse? I argue they do not exist beyond being members of Gwyn’s species, and thus associated with light.
“As he sees it, there are no gods, no transcendence, only truth, and Logan wishes to elucidate it. It is this heretical methodology that has allowed Logan to advance sorcery to the point that he has. In a word, he is a hero. Despite the awful rumors.” — Griggs of Vinheim, on the subject of Big Hat Logan
For this line of thinking to have resulted in advances in Sorcery seems to indicate that Logan was correct in his assessment. Furthermore we have a vague, albeit very useful, statement from Miyazaki on the matter of species.
Miyazaki: Salaman is not like that, no. First of all, there are different species. Quelana is a daughter of the Witch of Izalith, so regarding on reproductive actions, who knows if it’s even possible!
The Witches, while appearing human, are a separate species from the Pygmies and man. Why then, should Gwyn’s own species not be the same? They originated from the same place, with no power over the world. The Lord Souls are what gave them their prominence, not any innate deific quality. Additionally, all four Lords appear to be differing species. Nito’s size and proximity to the Tomb of the Giants hints that he may be a Giant himself. Seath is a Dragon and Pygmies are neither Gods nor Witches.
From a mechanical perspective, all of Gwyn’s species, which Ciaran’s dialogue notes are not human as well, have a weakness to darkness/occult (the Giants bearing this weakness are Gwyndolin’s illusions and are thus merely constructs of light). By Dark Souls 3’s time, they are no longer even referred to as gods, only as Royalty. Shira is the only person left who even remembers Gwyn is a god.
The reason I bring this up is to illustrate that there is nothing supported by the lore that indicates the gods would innately be able to remove a curse, and given Ingward’s loyalty to the gods, this is likely a mere display of the public perception towards the gods. Their role as deities in society is no more than a reflection of Gwyn’s dominance as bearer of the ultimate soul. With that in mind, the idea that they earned the role of curse breakers for slaying dragons can become more plausible.
If you are still skeptical I understand, as I have written about curses and not talked about the most significant curse in the series at all, the Curse of the Undead. In the final section I will work to tie in Gwyn’s own behavior and the nature of being undead together to fully explain why, from Gwyn’s perspective, slaying the dragons and breaking their curse was necessary in order to create his kingdom.
Part 3: The Mentality of Gwyn
It is commonly believed that Gwyn despised the dragons, hence the banishing of his own son for siding with them, but I believe this is a misconception. It has always stuck out to me and the community alike, that Gwyn has at least one draconic child (Yorshka) and raised one descendant of the dragons (Midir). These appear to be either glaring inconsistencies of character or blatant hypocrisy. But there is a third option that the Ringed City showcases: pragmatism. We must examine the spectacle of the Ringed City to understand this.
“The Ringed City is said to be at world’s end.
Past this heap of rubbish, as far as one can go.
But you’d better think twice.
The forsaken Ringed City was walled off by the gods to contain the pygmies.
…and the dark soul is better left well alone.” — Stone-Humped Hag
“Legend says that the Ringed City lies at the end of the earth.
This heap of everything, you’re looking right at it.
But be warned.
The pygmies were exiled to the Ringed City.
And no one should go near the dark soul.” — Stone-Humped Hag
Small Envoy Banner: For the pygmies, who took the dark soul, the Great Lord gifted the Ringed City, an isolated place at world’s end, and his beloved youngest daughter, promising her that he would come for her when the day came.
We first see these contradictory statements regarding the city’s purpose. The Stone-Humped Hag, as a living source of information and connection to royalty, can be assumed to be illuminating us to the true purpose of the Ringed City, especially due to her current status as a Londor Pilgrim. The Small Envoy Banner tells us the cultural understanding of the Ringed City, that the public saw it as a gift to proto-humanity, which as we will see below, Gwyn feared immensely.
“In the past, humans were one with the dark.
The former King of Light…He feared humans. Feared that they would usher in an age of dark.
How queer, you humans. How you go on, never separating truth from fiction.” — Grave Warden Agdayne
“Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity.
And men assumed a fleeting form.
These are the roots of our world.
Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite…
A lie will remain a lie.” — Aldia, Scholar of the First Sin
“Lord Gwyn trembled at the Dark.
Clinging to his Age of Fire, and in dire fear of humans,
and the Dark Lord who would one day be born amongst them,
Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature.
By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans,
Gwyn has blurred your past, to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord.” — Darkstalker Kaathe
Gwyn’s motive was a fear of what the Age of Dark would bring about, but the Ringed City and the Shepherding of the humans prior to Dark Souls 1 have an unusual quirk about them in common, Gwyn did not move to kill the Pygmies or their Human descendants. He instead created elaborated mechanisms that contained their potential and prolonged the Age of Fire, without which society as the people understood it could not exist.
We see the world of the Untended Graves in an Age of Dark past when Champion Gundyr failed to link the fire in time. It is a world utterly devoid of light, and thus understandable that this would be seen by the masses as catastrophic. While I don’t think prolonging the Age of Fire was necessarily good, I want to put into perspective why everyone would have wanted this to be the case. Up until now the Age of Fire is all the gods and humanity alike have ever known. It is important enough to preserve that Gwyn sacrificed his own children and eventually, himself, to sustain it.
The sacrifice of humans and imprisoning of pygmies, while in no way morally good actions, are in Gwyn’s mind the lesser of two evils in order to prevent an Age of Dark. Gwyn was the “bearer of the Ultimate Soul”, he could have simply wiped his enemies out like he did the Dragons, and it’s important to keep that distinction in mind when we think about why he did kill the Dragons. The Age of Ancients and Age of Dark have one thing in common, neither one can support a “normal” way of life. However humans and Pygmies do not produce curses and the early humans were valuable allies against the Dragons. Wiping them all out is not a viable solution, whereas removing curse-inducing dragons from the world was.
This goes a long way into giving us insight into why Gwyn treats his children the way they do. Yorshka’s existence and the raising of Midir become less bizarre when you look at it through the lens of Gwyn not slaying the dragons out of pure malice, but seeming necessity. Additionally, we know Aldia created Undead that were in the process of becoming Dragons , in the form of the Enhanced Undead. Dragon hybrids are a possible attempt at circumventing the cycle of linking the fire, as Dragons existed outside of it to begin with.
Finally, I want to explore the idea that the Curse of the Undead and the Dragons are actually very similar phenomena. Our first clue comes once again from Big Hat Logan.
“Ah, the secret of Seath’s immortality? If you have fought him, and were imprisoned, you must know that Seath is a true Undead, different from ourselves. His wounds close promptly, and no mortal blow affects him, granting true insulation from death. It is an effect of the Primordial Crystal, a sacred treasure pillaged by Seath when he turned upon the ancient dragons. So, only by destroying the Primordial Crystal can you so much as scratch his hide. And it so happens, the Primordial Crystal is in the inner garden of these very archives, the Crystal Forest.” — Big Hat Logan
Seath’s draconic immortality is likened peculiarly to the Undead, not the usual transcendence fare seen in the Dragon Scale descriptions. I believe this is also echoed throughout the series Dragon Covenants, as we only ever see humans, presumably undead (or unkindled), attempt to become Dragons. Despite their higher form of existence, there are no confirmed gods, giants, or other races that we know attempted to reach dragonhood. Additionally, the Primordial Crystal is yet another connection we have between crystals and the ancient Dragons.
I want to end on a more speculative note.
Old Moonlight: A memory of an old sword found deep within Midir.
This sorcery uses souls to grant form to the thought, and attack with it. Attacks are coupled with lightwaves, and sustaining the stance before attacking increases their speed and potency. The sword is named after moonlight, but it is slightly different than the one fashioned of the paledrake Seath. Perhaps it is rooted in an older memory, from not long after the Beginning.
This Sorcery completely turns the cosmology on its head…if it isn’t just a fun reference to King’s Field. It establishes the idea that Midir possesses a memory that predates Seath, and if this is true, they are both entities that came into existence after the First Flame, as the moonlight came from “Not long after the Beginning”. Stranger still, this is the only time a “Beginning” is ever referred to specifically. While it could easily be a reference to the Dawn of the Age of Fire, at which point light and time would have first entered the world, it could also be evidence of a purely cyclical world that some have theorized, where the end of Dark Souls 3 represents a return to the static Age of Ancients. Just something fun to speculate upon.
Part 4: Addressing Possible Counterpoints (addendum as of 2024)
It’s been quite some time since I wrote this, and while I still strongly agree with the evidence I presented, even though this was written long before I’d discover the translation work of writers like Lokey, or comb through Dusk of Oolacile’s dialogue which ties the crystal and stasis themes together further, two possible counterpoints have come up in further research and I want to address them.
The first is the description of the Twinkling Dragon Head Stone
“Stone imbued with the power of the everlasting dragons, the second of its kind, offered to a towering dragon.
Gain the head of a dragon and emit breath alongside an archdragon mirage. The transformation is irreversible until death.
The illusion achieved was the first case of a human imitating the form of an ancient dragon, and it revealed the smallness of human existence.
The road to the old dragons is long and arduous, and only one can complete the journey.”
This description very specifically notes itself to be a human imitating an Ancient Dragon and emitting breath, which does indeed deal fire damage. Seemingly, this should contradict a large part of what I have written, but I have another perspective that I think lines up better with the lore at large.
This is specifically noted to be a mirage and illusion, an imitation. Furthermore a mirage is a trick of Light, and the stone itself “twinkles”, two things that did not actually exist before the First Flame. An imitation would mean it is a practice passed down from what humans witnessed directly, and as we know the aspects of change the First Flame brought into the world could corrupt Ancient Dragons directly, granting them properties such as Kalameet’s Abyssal breath, or the Ancient Dragon’s soul and fire breath. I believe this is likely what this stone allows the user to imitate, the understanding of Dragons humans could recall or witness, with only the Ringed Knights being old enough to actually encounter true Archdragons, and even then their armaments are specifically noted to be crafted from the descendants of the true Dragons. This is pure speculation of course, but it is the only way to square this with the fact that Ancient Dragons predate the existence of fire itself.
The other point of contention is a single line of dialogue from Hawkeye Gough I had missed, only given if you refuse his aid in hunting Kalameet.
“A wise choice. Why foist thyself unto the fiery maw?”
I believe this can easily be explained by the above explanation of Dragons’ adapting to and being corrupted by the changes the First Flame brings, and also in the fact that he is referring to Kalameet specifically who we already know emits a destructive abyssal fiery breath.
However there is one further piece of evidence supporting that both of these do not refer to the original state of an Archdragon, the Dragon Greatsword, obtained from the truest descendent of an Archdragon we’ve seen, as Lokey’s Translations have revealed.
“Weapon born from the tail of the Stone Archdragon, descendant of the unperishing archdragons of before that sits in Ash Lake. One of the rare dragon weapons.
It is tinged with strong mysterious power and that power is unleashed with both hands.” — Lokey’s refined translation of the Dragon Greatsword, referred to as the “Archdragon Greatsword” in the original Japanese text
Aside from the fact that the Ash Lake Dragon is referred to as a true Archdragon (meaning Gough’s assessment of Kalameet as the last may not be a contradiction so much as him being fallible and unaware of the Ash Lake hatchling), we need to look at the “mysterious power”. Unlike the Twinkling Dragon Head Stone, the damage type for this weapon is simply “Regular”, it does not emit fire. Given this is sourced directly from a pure Archdragon, rather than an admitted imitation, I find this to be the nail in the coffin that the Ancient Dragons in their original forms did not breathe fire, thus cementing the closer connections to stone, curses, and crystals.
